Marty Wuttke - Interview with TIG
In my work I have come full-circle. Where to start; where I started was trying to find some type of scientifically accepted modality that we could use to facilitate a process of healing. Healing, from my perspective is totally dependent on a person’s level of spiritual awakening. Or spiritual experience. It has nothing to do with anything external; it is a totally internal process.
Since my spiritual awakening, enlightenment, process came from meditation, the most obvious conclusion was that western medicine would accept something that had to do with the brain, with brain waves. Since that was what for science was correlated with deep states of meditation. So I worked in a psychiatric hospital and realised that EEG-feedback would be where it is at; you can show, you can guide people into these deep meditative states quicker by showing what their brain waves are doing, according to what we know about meditation. Immediate side effect of that happened to be relief of chronic pain, anxiety, and stress disorders. These things became distractions for me, because of the field I was in that became the notoriety, rather than the spiritual experience that I was openly pointing towards. I let that happen, got an article published and started training people. It was found that people’s primary interests were post traumatic stress disorder, chronic pain, addiction and so on, but I always held to the fundamental point that this was an awakening of the self-healing process. It is just a mirror, only a mirror of you. And a rather gross reflection of a rather gross level of your consciousness, the carrier wave – because that is all the EEG is – and if you look at it long enough, and quiet it long enough, you will go deep enough inside and discover some wonderful things, and along the way, yes, you may get relief from your chronic pain and depression, and stresses and trauma’s of your life. But the point is to go within.
After 18 years of that I have done a full-circle. We have treated all these problems, autoimmune diseases, you name it, but it is a fundamental issue that it is a process of the locus of control for people. They still argue with us ‘this computer is fixing me’, but I am always pointing to the fact that the only thing the are doing is to learn to re-regulate the brain. they learn to calm their brain; to get rid of the static. As Karl says ‘to get rid of the variables’. When you do that, what happens in the neocortex, the limbic system a,d the brain stem, in terms of frequencies, is that they communicate better. If you aim people in the right direction, then the static is removed from the system and the communication improves. The natural outcome is simple: it is health.
The very act of consciousness watching itself quiets its. The EEG offers the feedback by which this can happen, and the quieting sets in. It is more than a healing process. A Qi Gong master described it as: “what you are really healing, is healing”. It is interesting that it is actually possible to heal the effects of electrostress, by the brain watching its own EEG. People actually do this. You can heal yourself of this electrical interference, totally outside of your awareness, around us. It all comes down to tghich Qi/energy. Apparently we can control it with our intention. Some of the Qi Gong practices are fond about creating an energy capsule around yourself, using your intention and feeling the Qi. So I guess we can actually do that, and that it works since we have tremendous results with these people. With chronic fatigue and immune disorders. If these illnesses have arisen out of a polluted electrical environment, then we have taught them how to get un-polluted. That is very interesting; and very powerful.
So, there is a lot coming together now
The next step, with Jan and the equipment of the Imaging Lab.
Most enlightened matters, when hooked up on the EEG, would say: This is not showing what is happening, it shows a lot but not what I am experiencing internally. Because the equipment is gross equipment. The sense that I have is that the 2nd order FFT will be able to pinpoint what that is, this measurement frequency power and so on. I think that this is a relationship where a harmonic occurs; and overtone of frequencies. That go on and on ad infinitum at both ends of the frequency spectrum. Which in effect [puts you in perfect relationship to the universe. This is what the master say they experience. This is what is desctribed in the book “Why God won’t go away”, by Neurenberg e.a.. They talk about the experience of AUB, Absolute Unitary Being, which is just another way of saying the same thing. This is why I am interested in discovering these technologies. Number one is that harmonic frequency spectrum indicator for that experience of Absolute Unitary Being; Number two is that I have seen that people had this AUB on neurofeedback. : I saw God today’. During my sessions. That has just been another nice side-effect of the EEG bio-feedback. I wonder iof we can pin-point that right now, and be more direct, and abloe to say “this is the pattern of what happens”, and be able to aim people in that direction, be cause that would be really remarkable.
You have measured people in states of disease and illness, when they in some way interfere with their own being. You have measured people who are in harmony with their own being and their environment. And you have measured people who experience how they were swathing on to the Universal Being Experience.What differences are seen in the measurements? Can they be seen?
Absolutely. Universal Being experiences can have Theta 3 standard deviations below the norm. ……. And temporal lobes as well. And a neurologist would say ‘o my what a screwed up brain’. In fact the last guy I measured had a spec scan done at the clinic and frontal lobes slowing 3 standard deviations below norm, which would be considered pathological. This guy is a master, practically floating around. These people can only be subjectively told apart by their behaviour from those with pathology; but there must be something, in the beta ratios or somewhere. I would say that the three standard deviations below known indicate that one cannot focus, but that there is some other ingredient in the beta waves that can change the whole picture; that is what he said: that something that is happening is not measured by this equipment.
Do you know what kind of instrument this would need?
No, it is more than likely that it will show up as a harmonic. As far as the nervous system is concerned, there are 4 pathways to enlightenment. one aspect of it is extreme sympathetic arousal; as is found in Sufi dancing, or in rituals that also bring into a heightened state of arousal. And there is the aspect of intensified parasympathetic activity, to make it more quiet till there is a break through. There are also techniques that do both, and lead to a pitch where transcendence takes place. I don’t know if it requires so much energy; these are the ecstatic forms. There are rituals designed to do that. So, the thing about EEG bio-feedback is that we can do that because the brainwaves are signals of arousal levels, sympathetic and parasympathetic, afferent pathways; and you can obviously use that to induce the same. I have a protocol, S7 betaq, fast activity, while at the same time right Parietal alfa is stimulated; that is where body boundaries are dealt with. We know that mystical states relate to a shift in body boundaries and that seems to correlate with right parietal. The ecstasy that you experience corresponds with left frontal. I have given this protocol to some people and a neurologist in South America has dubbed it ‘the Dalai Lama protocol’, because of his experience with it. Evidently the combination of sympathetic and parasympathetic produces a profound state. So my wishlist is to start discovering what we can do to 1) find out exactly what that EEG correlate of Absolute Unitary Being is; and I don’t know what else to look for though with the equipment right now. Harmonised, relationships between frequencies. Are there other parameters that we need to look at maybe? Maxwell Kay who invented the mind mirror and did many measurements on yogi’s also used ELR, electrical conductivity across the surface of the skin; maybe that is something else that we need to look at.
You have made some kind of map of the measured mental states, connecting mental states to brain locations. CAN YOU SEND ME A CHART OF THIS FOR THIS ARTICLE?
You also mentioned that there is a link between this and rituals; have you measured this?
It has been measured. Rituals are formula’s for brain changes. Whatever shaman or whomever designed the ritual, even the knowledge behind the design of cathedrals has the knowledge of the pressure and brain states. When you stand in the centre of a place 70 feet high and 70 feet wide or whatever the dimensions need to be, you have an immense visual space and adjustments that your brain has to go through. The actual dimension of space and pressure, together with the appropriate colours of stained glass windows, and smells of Frankincense, is going to produce the brain changes that are not going to induce the mystical states, but create the perfect ground for one to happen. The architects of these churches, and the pyramids and mayan temples, seemed to know exactly what they were doing. They were all designed around where that knowledge is.
There are some descriptions of the way churches are actually like laser devices.
That is a good way to put it.
They integrate stabilised wave forms, and Phil Callahan showed foto’s of the cave where the Qumran bible was found, with blue rays of light coming out of the opening of the cave, because that is where the radio wave frequencies become coherent as in a kind of womb. Thus there is a connection between the radio wave frequency spectrum that is harvested in such a womb/cathedral and what happens in our brain. And the space of doing is it one way; the activity is another. Have you done comparative measurements between the space people live in and ritual? Many people live their daily life like a ritual; but do not realise that Rituals are also a way to get out of the chain of reflexes. Have you explored any of that?
Yes. Rituals are not some superstitious mumbo-jumbo. I am very formula-oriented. I know that if I meditate for this any days and don’t eat this and practice this and do this technique then I am going to produce an experience. It is very clear to me. I have done it over and over again. Sometimes you have to be very patient, you know: for a hundred days I have to hold this specific meditation posture, do this particular breathing techniques, fast of this particular kind of food, and so on; but on the 101th day the experience is there. …. So ritual ios maybe a wrong word: it is a formula which will give a specific precise and clear effect; it is not superstition at all.
Many people do not understand that the body is a supercomputer, a bio-computer that computes itself which is also the processor of our reality experience, so that by tuning the instrument differently other connections are involved. The3re are many processes involved that are outside of our consciousness simply because our conscious has not been trained to be aware of it. But the body is still part of the universe; and the universe is still part of the same system that the body is part of.
And the body is part of the Earth.
So by tuning out the things that are not relevant there is room for the relevance to come in. Like in tuning of a piano: by tuning a part that is out of tune the coherence of all the rest can be sensed again.
There is a wonderful retreat that I will be going to in February. Throughout history there have been complete sensory deprivation places built – the Pyramid is probably one of them, and there are many others – where people will go into some kind of Earthen structure (in India that is called Kaya Kalpa) completely devoid of light, be it a cave, and spend a designated amount of time there, to do just what you are saying. So, in Tailand there is one developed by Mantak Chia who is a very renowned Daoist, pretty famous, one of those guys who studied wit all those Chinese masters and decided to tell everybody everything; so there you have a 29 day program of complete darkness. They have gone around with the photon detectors and so and created a completely dark sealed place where you go and spend 4 weeks with intense meditation. And they have shown that after some days you get this Melatonin, then Serotonin, and then all of a sudden DMT kicks in, which is the internal endogenous hallucinogen: and then you start seeing the light, everywhere. That is rather profound.
There has just been an article on this in TIG, on the harmonic cascade of the molecules that are created.
So I think this will be a fascinating experience. It is called Dark Room Enlightenment. I don’t know Mantak Chia at all, and I’ve heard some good stories and some bad stories, and I don’t know: I think the technique is the same. So during the retreat you practice the most important Daoist techniques all the time. It sounds fascinating. It is not expensive either; $700/week I think. So we’ll see, if I can take February off I’ll do it, Susan too.
The idea coming up again and again is that of a mirror: the universe as a mirror, neurofeedback as a mirror, … And basically what is there to see, except for the universe. All is based on our seeing, and a lot of conditions going on due to people not looking at it. People are too busy looking to be able to see; how they see. As a result in a paradoxical way they see more of their blind spots than the spots of enlightenment.
So, in working with people, you will see patterns, in their brain waves. You mentioned that in their brain waves you can see if they were raped as a child, or see if they witnessed someone else being raped.
Yes, very clear. I have images of that. Yes, there are studies now that show the amygdale and hippocampus thalamus and hypothalamus are affected; they all have to do with the way they regulate our behaviour versus our memory versus our conditioning, belief structures and what kind of messages are allowed up to neo-cortex and what de-affrontation effects takes place.
From my perspective you are looking at the ‘inside cathedral’, where waves are organised, materialised, and form waves and wave guides at different levels.
It becomes, your, the individual’s, blueprint of the world. This is how it manifests. You can teach them to change it, then blueprint: then the blueprint on the outside changes too. It is very interesting.
The interesting aspect is that you don’t change people to change it: you give them a self-reflection as a result of which they choose to change it. You unprint it. It is letting dro what is irrelevant so you can see what is relevant; and that of course was there from the start.
Yes, you subtract, no addition. There is so much cultural conditioning: you have to this that and the other. In order to really get the point across to people that that is just ‘stuff’. And that they can really trust the whole benevolent universe, that they are that, is pretty hard.
Can I turn my earlier question for your wish-list around: now about the device, how it can be constructed, but the wish-list for what the device could do. What you can do with an ideal neurofeedback device. You already mentioned the link between neurofeedback and ritual. Now you mentioned the link between neurofeedback and ruts of life styles. Could you imagine how ruts of life styles- which are rituals – could be coupled to rituals – which are forms of neurofeedback – to make clear how this changes the way their brain functions. To make explicit for people how they monitor their brain in their actions. To help them se and know that they actually have the choice to rut or not-rut. To relate the way people live to the way they are rutting, and that those ruts are like rituals; but that they always have a choice. And that they can see it on this kind of mirror. Creating a setting in which they can do things, and then the mirror will actually help them see what they are creating, by giving direct feedback. “Now you see; this is it”.
Yes, that actually happens. When we train people we actually say: “this may change your life”. Just be aware. Because people will come back and say: “I see the ruts now”. “I am always blaming myself for this”. They actually start seeing the ruts; because they are becoming more conscious, that is all.
Is this something which you already offer in a direct manner, the feedback on consciousness itself? To some extent you describe this from the perspective reflecting the trail of life that you walked: in therapeutic settings, with a therapeutic approach. But the purpose of you walk is a consciousness setting, with a consciousness approach.
So have we really designed an approach, with neurofeedback, to put people in that realisation? Most of what I am doing now is lots of Qi Gung, because Qi Gong is oriented toward the rituals that we do with our bodies, and trying to learn new rituals with our bodies. Such as different movements, and trying to relax; letting energy flow and letting energy stop being blocking and so on. Many of the movements of Qi Gong are based on the balance of the universe, and by moving your hands and your body in a specific way you are letting the forces of the universe flow through your body and harmonising, connecting Heaven and Earth ((Feeling with Matter)). I found it extremely compatible to the neurofeedback; so much so that I am working with a Qi Gung master with a huge organisation, world-wide, and we would like to see neurofeedback in all the Qi Gong centres; he would too. What they are trying to do with the body you can do with the brain,